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Author Topic: TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread - Chat Brat Anonymous - ( Pinned )  (Read 1491 times)

Offline Archiver

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 TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread       685 posts
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  •           oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        23 Apr 2018, 00:07 #601
     I could have been more technical with more information, but I got the point across. Thanks, Seneca. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                   Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        24 Apr 2018, 00:33 #602
     Question for you Mike.
     
     You were saying Antiochius defiled the temple and that means he commuted the Abomination of desolation, correct?
     If that is so, then we no longer need to wait for that to
     be fulfilled before the Lord comes back. In other words, it
     is no longer a marker that we need to watch for.
     
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        24 Apr 2018, 00:39 #603
     Question for you Mike.
     
     You were saying Antiochius defiled the temple and that means he commuted the Abomination of Desalination. Righ? Does this mean we no longer need to watch for this as a marker that the Lord is coming because the way it has been told, this would happen 3 1/2 yrs into the tribulation. Now, we don't have to be watching for that to be fulfilled.
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        24 Apr 2018, 00:48 #604
     
    Sadie wrote:Question for you Mike.
     
     You were saying Antiochius defiled the temple and that means he commuted the Abomination of Desalination. Righ? Does this mean we no longer need to watch for this as a marker that the Lord is coming because the way it has been told, this would happen 3 1/2 yrs into the tribulation. Now, we don't have to be watching for that to be fulfilled.
    Antiochus Epiphanes was a protype anti-Christ. Not thheeeeeeeeeee antichrist of Revelation.
     
     When you get right down to it, the temple had been defiled more that once during its existence. I can't tell you where I read it, but the kings who "did evil in the sight of the Lord" or "did not follow in the ways of the Lord" followed in the ways of Baal, which means rolling in temple prostitutes of both sexes.
     
     You have Uzziah being struck with leprosy because he went where he shouldn't. You have Eli the high priest's sons banging women in the temple.
     
     Antiochus was the worst by bring in a statue of Zeus. The antichrist of Revelation will set himself up to be worshipped, forget about any false gods. Nope, no free pass. We get the antichrist. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        24 Apr 2018, 14:50 #605
     Ok. thanks for the answer.
     
     
     
     
     
     The Bilderberg Group can't save evangelicalismThursday, April 19, 2018 | Janet Mefferd - Guest Columnist
     http://janetmefferd.com/
     
     Janet MefferdThis whole Bilderberg Group mentality isn't helping at all. The self-appointed elites will privately meet at an invite-only "consultation" to figure out what's wrong with us mouth-breathers, and neither we nor our preferred pastors or leaders are allowed to weigh in.
     
     Elites from across the spectrum of the industry gathered behind closed doors at an invite-only meeting this week, on a prestigious campus of higher learning.
     
     On the agenda: Well, you're not important enough to know all those details, other than to understand that the gathering was an outlet to address "challenges" and certainly was not organized with anything anti-Trump in mind.
     
     SKIP>>>
     We know from The Christian Post, for example, that attendees included Tim Keller, co-founder of The Gospel Coalition; Fuller Seminary president Mark Labberton; Gabriel Salguero of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition; and Trillia Newbell of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, among others.
     
     Pastor Jeffress with Donald TrumpWe also know who wasn't invited: prominent evangelical Trump supporters like Franklin Graham of Samaritan's Purse; Dr. Robert Jeffress, senior pastor of First Baptist Dallas; and Jerry Falwell Jr., president of Liberty University.
     
     Prior to the gathering, Doug Birdsall of the Lausanne Movement told The Christian Post: "I have been in touch with two of their offices with a desire to engage in a meaningful conversation. I don't think they are globally perceived as evangelical thought leaders by virtue of what they have written or by virtue of the values that are reflected in their public statements."
     
     They're not globally perceived as evangelical thought leaders? Sure, the son of Billy Graham, who is known internationally for his evangelism and relief work, is just small potatoes, right? The senior pastor of one of the largest Southern Baptist churches in America, a Trump adviser and an internationally known speaker for a large media ministry – a big nothing, y'all. And who cares what the president of the largest Christian university in the U.S. thinks about anything?
     
     Translation: Those Trump guys are just an embarrassment to "our" movement. The "crazy uncles" you hide in the closet when company comes. And we'll just pretend that 80% of white evangelicals didn't vote for Trump, while we're at it. It's just downright humiliating to have to acknowledge any institutional attachment to these – well, we won't call them mouth-breathers, but – understated thinkers who voted for Trump, right? They're not globally perceived as thought leaders!
     
     Don't worry, though. Dallas Theological Seminary professor Dr. Darrell Bock assured evangelicals after the meeting that it wasn't "anti-anything" and certainly not "anti-Trump."
     
     So let's assess some of the "non-anti-anything-or-anti-Trump" content from this purported "evangelical consultation," as live-tweeted by writer and speaker Katelyn Beaty:
     
     "American evangelicalism has not been able to separate itself from the perks of white supremacy." – Pastor Charlie Dates, Progressive Baptist Church of Chicago
     "How could white Christians mourn the deaths of the Charleston Nine but politically support a presidential candidate who appeals to the ideology held by the Charleston murderer?" – Bishop Claude Alexander, senior pastor of The Park Church
     "As the country has become more polarized, the church has become more polarized, and that's because the church is not different enough from America or from modernity. There's now a red and blue evangelicalism." – Tim Keller, co-founder of The Gospel Coalition
     "We need to evaluate whether our institutions and churches are safe places, in terms of mental health and spiritual health, for African-Americans." – Trillia Newbell of the ERLC
     "All power must be reframed in the light of the cross. An evangelical dance with political power, the Religious Right, the Tea Party, and now Trump … is central to our failure. Winning power was Judas's goal, not Jesus's." – Mark Labberton, president of Fuller Seminary
     "We were taught to become like you [American Christians], and now we have our own Trump: Jair Bolsonaro." – Brazilian church leader Valdir Steuernagel
     This is "globally perceived evangelical thought leadership," eh? No wonder the doors were closed!
     
     Let's face it: The same group of perceived-as-Trump-hating progressives are on a constant Important Conference prowl, continually gathering to navel-gaze, pontificate, genuflect before each other's brilliance, insult their detractors and talk about how glad they are that they're not like Trump voters or – God forbid – those embarrassing, compromised, hayseed leaders of the Religious Right.
     
     more
     
     https://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives ... gelicalism
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        24 Apr 2018, 22:44 #606
     http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/ ... trump.html
     
     “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.” (Matthew 6:24)
     
     The verse refers to money, but in light of today’s debate about the unaccountable devotion many Christian leaders have for President Trump it is not a stretch to apply it to their relationship with him.
     
     Last week at Wheaton College in Illinois a number of Christian pastors and leaders gathered to discuss the future of “evangelicalism” in the Trump era. Some who were not there claimed it was a forum for Trump-bashing, some who were in attendance disagreed.
     
     There is a conceit among some conservative Christians that God is only at work when a person they voted for is elected and that the rest of the time He must be attending to other countries. “God showed up,” said Franklin Graham following Trump’s election. Scripture states that all authority comes from God and that “The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord like channels of water; he turns it wherever he wants.”(Proverbs 21:1)
     
     That means that God also must have “shown up” when Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and every other president was elected. The Almighty does, in fact, have a different agenda than us earthlings and sometimes He puts up leaders to judge people for their wicked behavior.
     
     I don’t want to be defined by a label, the meaning of which can mean different things to different people. The second reason is that I don’t want to be aligned with various causes and movements that have little or nothing to do with the God in whom I believe.
     
     Long ago I stopped answering people’s questions about my denominational background for at least two reasons. The first is that I don’t want to be defined by a label, the meaning of which can mean different things to different people. The second reason is that I don’t want to be aligned with various causes and movements (spare me from movements) that have little or nothing to do with the God in whom I believe.
     
     Which brings me to today’s “evangelicals.” If you do not identify as one, or if you are secular, can you define the term without a Google search? Probably not, but the word has invaded the culture much like “born again” (usually in quotes in newspaper stories) in the ’70s when Jimmy Carter publicly pronounced his second birth.
     
     Evangelicals mostly voted for the church-going Carter in 1976, though not in 1980, preferring instead the non-church-going Ronald Reagan. I understand. It was more about policy than piety.
     
     That brings me back to the debate within evangelical circles as to whether President Trump deserves the support, even adulation, even fawning, of some in their tribe.
     
     I will leave that for now to those debating the issue and ask a more important question. What would happen in our culture and especially in our politics if all of those who call themselves evangelicals began obeying the commands of Jesus of Nazareth?
     
     As I read the Scriptures, which evangelicals believe are infallible and inerrant, both Testaments place obedience as a top priority for believers.
     
     If God is supreme and Jesus is Savior, doesn’t it follow that their commands and teachings should be paramount?
     
     There is no expectation, much less any command, for believers to prop up a fallen world through government. It’s quite the opposite. What would be the world’s perception of evangelicals if they started obeying the commands of their true leader? Those commands are to love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, feed the hungry (that’s personal, not government), clothe the naked, visit those in prison and care for widows and orphans.
     
     Yes, some do these things, but not enough. Today, “evangelicals” are perceived by many as one more interest group attached to the Republican Party and especially President Trump. Its members need to make a choice as to which one is their true “master.” They can’t serve both. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        25 Apr 2018, 17:32 #607
     
    wrote:Yes, some do these things, but not enough. Today, “evangelicals” are perceived by many as one more interest group attached to the Republican Party and especially President Trump. Its members need to make a choice as to which one is their true “master.” They can’t serve both.
    I don't serve Trump but I do support him.
     Serving and supporting are 2 different things.
     I like Cal but I think he was a little off base with that comment.
     
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        25 Apr 2018, 22:47 #608
     You're right. Most folks I know do not vote democratic because of the abortion issue. As with me. Trump most of the time (but not all) agrees with the way I think. So I don't have a problem voting for him.
     
     I wish I hadn't posted that column and thought a bit more about it. The fact that the evangelicals voted for Carter then Reagan means they don't vote religion only. When you had a choice between Carter and Ford means voting for/against the guy who pardoned Nixon and was perceived as a dunce. When you had a choice between Carter/Reagan you were voting for/against a guy who was perceived as being soft on terrorists, the gas crisis happened during his watch, and the Rs cut a deal with the terrorists to release the hostages after the election, remember that - So Cal Thomas took a couple of cheap shots. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        27 Apr 2018, 21:07 #609
     Between all the threats from Iran and Turkey, Israel had better be on her toes.
     
     
     
     Iranian leader Ayatollah Khameini says that ALL Muslim nations should unite and wage war against The United States and Israel
     APR 27, 2018by JEWS NEWSin ISRAEL
     
     BY ROBERT SPENCER
     
     Islamic entities keep telling us this is a religious war. Policy analysts in Washington keep telling us it isn’t. Who is right? The evidence of the last seventeen years ought to establish that well enough for any neutral observer, but if you know someone who is still on the fence, preorder a copy of The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS for them here. The record of the last fourteen centuries speaks for itself, and clearly, but this record is almost completely unknown in the U.S. today.
     
     
     
     “Iran’s Khamenei urges Muslim nations to unite against U.S.: state TV,” Reuters, April 26, 2018:
     
     ANKARA (Reuters) – …”The Iranian nation has successfully resisted bullying attempts by America and other arrogant powers and we will continue to resist… All Muslim nations should stand united against America and other enemies,” Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said.
     
     Iran’s top authority criticized Trump for saying on Tuesday some countries in the Middle East “wouldn’t last a week” without U.S. protection.
     
     “Such remarks are humiliation for Muslims … Unfortunately there is war in our region between Muslim countries. The backward governments of some Muslim countries are fighting with other countries,” Khamenei said….
     
     more
     
     https://www.jewsnews.co.il/2018/04/27/i ... srael.html
     
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        30 Apr 2018, 14:46 #610
     Report: Iran expected to attack Israel following Lebanon’s May 6 election
     
     Following the alleged Israeli airstrikes in Syria last night, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said that his country is more committed than ever to eradicating terrorists from his country. Meanwhile, an official in an alliance that includes Syria and its regional allies told the New York Times that Iran will likely attack Israel after the Lebanese parliamentary election in May.
     Apr 30, 2018, 4:00PM Becca Noy
     
     On Monday, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad claimed that the latest airstrikes in Syria constitute an escalation in hostility toward Syria. In the airstrikes, several sites in the Hama and Aleppo areas were destroyed. Pro-Assad media outlets and Hezbollah have accused Israel of carrying out the airstrikes.
     
     “The entire region is in a stage where the political maps are being redrawn,” Assad said during a meeting with an Iranian lawmaker, according to Hadashot news. “The incorporation of other countries in the phase of direct aggression [against Syria] after their plans failed only increases the determination of the Syrians to eradicate all forms of terrorism.”
     
     Meanwhile, the New York Times reported that more than 200 missiles were destroyed in last night’s attack, quoting an unnamed official from a regional alliance that includes Iran, Syria and Hezbollah. In addition, the official said that 11 Iranians were among the 16 people who were killed.
     
     more
     
     http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/mid ... +Recurring

Offline Archiver

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 TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread       685 posts
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  •           oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        03 May 2018, 23:26 #611
     Here's something new - some kind of a prophecy STREAM not a video from you tube. Forget the Planet X garbage I don';t know why that's in the headline right now this minute Gary Stearman Prophecy Watchers with Bill Salus is on very good.
     
     
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                   oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        03 May 2018, 23:52 #612
     next up is natural earth changes record snowfalls this past winter :"evolutionary energy arts" tree huggers whale watchers.  "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        04 May 2018, 23:23 #613
     David Jeremiah is doing a series of videos on Revelation. My wife says he has a couple of different takes on things. He's very good. He's on the radio around here 11:30 to 12 I listened to day. I think he speaks better than he writes. Anyway my wife has been going non-stop all day on youtube.
     
     You can start here, and take your pick down the right side. Dr. Jeremiah is scripturally correct
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        05 May 2018, 20:11 #614
     Thanks, Mike.
     
     I will check them out. 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        05 May 2018, 22:13 #615
     I watched Panorama of Prophecy and 4 Horseman combined this afternoon and tonight.
     
     He says 2 Thessalonians 2 9:13 says if you don't get raptured, you have no chance of being saved. That's a pretty dynamite conclusion that I have never heard preached before and it's pretty unavoidable. Me and my wife have been discussing this all day, and we want to bring this up at our Wed Bible study. Of course, one of the preachers thinks there will be no rapture whatsoever, but it's plain to me we have to be gone by the 6th Seal. Jeremiah is adamant that there will be a pre-trib rapture.
     
     You should hear him go through the 4 horseman. He said the first white horse is the anti-christ because it's a false copy of Jesus entrance on the scene. He said the guy has a victor's crown, not a diadem like Jesus, he has a bow but no arrow, which is how the Anti-christ comes to power promising Israel 7 years of peace. He said the 4 times come and see in the Greek means "Go!", Go to the earth and do whatever it is you do.
     
     The red horse has a sword but in the Greek he says it's like a sica in Italian and Hebrew, meaning an short dagger that can be hidden, meaning assassins will be stirring stuff with selective deaths, in addition to general warfare.
     
     He said the 3 rd horse means famine, but "don't hurt the oil and wine" means it will be famine for the poor, not the rich, just like the Depression didn't hurt the rich.
     
     He said pestilence (disease) will take out 1/4 of the world's population.
     
     He also made the statement in the panorama prophecy video that he really didn't want to do Revelation if he couldn't relate it to our daily lives. He said in the first one I mentioned up top, he isn't there to count the toes on Daniel's beast, (audience laughed) In 2012 we were guilty of that; prophecy is not meant to tickle your ears, because it is very interesting, nor is it meant to show how smart you are, it's meant to save souls. All that is true. You don't want to be around for the trib. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        06 May 2018, 21:21 #616
     Well, it seems Revelation is one of those things that is interpreted depending on who is reading it. It is also the fact that it is hard to interpret something written so long ago and try to correlate it with modern times. You just don't know who is right. I like Hagee and Perry and I trust their knowledge of the Bible. That way I won't get too confused. lol
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        11 May 2018, 14:34 #617
     It's the best, most detailed series I ever heard. The radio show starts Feb 13th (Youtube) and continues FIVE days a week. Sat and Sun are others. I'm as far as Mar 20th.
     
     Anyway, when I said
     
     >"He says 2 Thessalonians 2 9:13 says if you don't get raptured, you have no chance of being saved."
     
     He back up on that in "souls under the altar Part 1 and Part 2" because obviously these are martyrs asking for vengeance (looks funny but correct sp) for their murders. They wear white robes. Therefore, they are saved martyrs who one way or the bloody other lost their lives during the trib.
     He pained the scenario, what happens to those whose loved ones disappear after the rapture, Don't you suppose they'd pick up the Bibles left behind and read the word, won't some of those come to the Lord?"
     
     This is why I (told my wife) I had a problem with a cut and dried rapture. But we agree it will be much harder to get saved because the Holy Spirit is now in heaven. In Chapter 1-3, the seven spirits are on earth, in chapter 4:5 they are in heaven, along with the 24 elders (the church) that had been raptured.
     
     Remember when I said, I didn't believe in a pre-trib rapture? I do now. I know I've switched back and forth but now, when I'm given a more detailed read on Revelation and the epistles, I believe. That was the key up there, the differences between the first 3 chapters and 4 and 5, where you want to be.
     
     --------
     About the 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials.
     
     He pointed out that the 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets, and the 7th trumpet contains the 7 seven vials or bowls.
     So when I said they are consecutive, they are, but the last two "sevens" are telescoped within the 7th seal. So I was right (whew) but not totally. The last two sevens will occur in the last three and one-half years of the tribulation, with no breaks. It will be hell on earth, with hell to come. That's why there's silence in heaven when the 7th seal is opened. They can't believe what's going to happen.
     
     --------
     About the 4 horsemen.
     First of all there are two types of crowns in the Bible - diadem and Stephanus (I never heard this.) Diadems are reserved for kings. Stephanus are reserved for victors, overcomers, and the rider of the white horse.
     
     Rev 6:2
     2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
     NIV
     
     The white horse in eastern cultures is seen as mighty and conquering. Crown here is stephanus crown not like the diadems that Jesus wears in Chapter 19. In Chapter 19, Jesus has a sword. The rider on the white horse has a bow, with no arrows.
     
     When the anti-Christ comes, he will promise peace bow but no arrows - I never saw that). So Satan is imitating once again, Jesus. People will think this guy will be the great saviour of the world.
     
     But the next rider, the red horse, he brings the war. He's got the sword. But Jeremiah says the greek for sword here is a short one, one you can hide, (like the Latin and Hebrew "sica" like they did Julius Caesar - omm). So there will be assassinations, men on men, one at a time, in addition to war. A lot of smiting there Wayha.
     
     He says the phrase, don't hurt the oil and wine, these is a rich mans food, the famine of the third horse (famine always follows war, always) will be a poor and middle class famine, the rich will escape that and become richer, as they always do like during the Great Depression.
     
     Jeremiah says 25 percent of the earth's population will die in the first three and one-half years of the tribulation, as a result of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Assuming 6 billion, that's 1.5 billion people.
     
     I don't know about y'all, but I don't want to be there. So I pray nightly like Jesus said in Luke,
     Luke 21:36
     36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
     KJV
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        11 May 2018, 14:57 #618
     
    Sadie wrote:Well, it seems Revelation is one of those things that is interpreted depending on who is reading it. It is also the fact that it is hard to interpret something written so long ago and try to correlate it with modern times. You just don't know who is right. I like Hagee and Perry and I trust their knowledge of the Bible. That way I won't get too confused. lol
    I never listen to Hagee (personal preference), and Perry isn't on often enough to suit me; that being said, we intend to go see Perry Stone in Simpsonville SC June 12th and 13th, it's about 70 miles from here.
     
     David Jeremiah has a piercing voice that causes me to remember quite well what he says. But I take notes during these radio shows. You have to, because he covers so much ground. He does not take things out of context, and he always uses scripture to back up what he says.
     
     By the way, I have new VA hearing aids I can hear ever so much better than before, No remote, just volume control. Wow. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        11 May 2018, 20:17 #619
     Congrats on the new hearing aids!
     And, I'm envious that you will be seeing Perry in person.
     I hope he lives up to the expectations!
     
     Thanks for the synopsis. I do appreciate reading your insights and takes
     and theories. :4U: 
     
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        11 May 2018, 21:43 #620
     European Leaders Set to Abolish the European Union, Signed Agreement to Create European Superstate, EU Chief: ‘We have to replace the United States’
     eu
     By Nate Brown — See Comments — Region: Eurasia
     Published: June 27, 2016 Updated: May 10, 2018 at 11:07 am EST
     Subscribe
     
     France and Germany plan to enact a European Superstate abolishing the European Union and formally altering the current world order to establish a European Superstate that can challenge the United States’ dominance. In addition, the EU Chief has stated his desire to replace the United States on the World Stage.
     
     According to signed documents by France and Germany, obtained by TVP; the superpowers of the world better get ready for another contender; the European Superstate. In the West it’s America, in the East, it’s Russia and China, but now there is a plan to create a monstrous superstate and abolish the European Union.
     
     more
     
     https://christianjournal.net/nwo/elite- ... rld-order/

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 TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread       685 posts
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  •           Sadie   
    Posts 62,392
      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        11 May 2018, 21:47 #621
     Could this be the 10 Horns and 10 Kings?
     
     
     Emmanuel Macron’s coalition of the willing
     The French-led military pact has pulled in London — and Berlin.
     
     By   PAUL TAYLOR   5/2/18, 4:00 AM CET Updated 5/3/18, 8:09 AM CET
     
     French President Emmanuel Macron intends to prepare European armed forces to act together in emergencies | AFP/Getty Images
     
     PARIS — Impatient with German foot-dragging on defense, French President Emmanuel Macron will bring together a 10-nation coalition of the willing next month designed to prepare European armed forces to take action together in emergencies, and to bind Britain into military cooperation as it leaves the EU.
     
     Defense ministers of France, the U.K., Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Denmark and Estonia will sign a letter of intent in Paris in June, officials told me, pledging to develop a common strategic culture, share analysis and foresight on trouble spots that may require intervention and work to coordinate their forces for future operations.
     
     Macron outlined the idea in his keynote Sorbonne speech on European integration last September, calling for a common European intervention force, defense budget and doctrine for action in contingencies where the United States and NATO may not get involved. France wants to recruit allies that could help share its military burden especially in Africa, where it intervened alone in Mali in 2012 to prevent Islamist militants seizing control of a weak state.
     
     Frustrated by the big-tent, low-ambition start to the European Union’s so-called Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) in defense agreed last year at Germany’s insistence, the French leader is pressing ahead with a small core of like-minded nations outside EU and NATO institutional structures.
     
     By involving Estonia, they made sure they have an Eastern EU member country on the frontline with Russia engaged from the outset.
     
     British Prime Minister Theresa May quietly endorsed the initiative at a Franco-British summit at the Sandhurst Military Academy in January but did not publicize the step to avoid antagonizing hard-line Brexiteers in her Conservative Party, to whom any idea of an “EU army” is anathema. She did announce a practical move to help the French in the Sahel region, making available three heavy-lift Chinook helicopters to support operations in Mali.
     
     more
     
     https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanue ... operation/
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        12 May 2018, 00:04 #622
     >Could this be the 10 Horns and 10 Kings?
     
     All I know is some part of old Roman Empire will ra'ar it's head and form a portion of the one-world government. Some religious leader will meld the world's religions into one. Men of stature will promote peace and will be welcomed with open arms.
     
     I think that new ruthless prince in Saudi Arabia bears watching. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        13 May 2018, 19:26 #623
     MAY 14 BOOM! 70 Year Rapture, Trump, Jerusalem - Dr. Gene Kim
     
     
     
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        14 May 2018, 00:53 #624
     Have you heard the rumors about Trump's peace plan being a dividing of Jerusalem? This pasture talks about it around 5 minutes in. The entire video is good regarding prophecy.
     
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        15 May 2018, 00:06 #625
     
    Sadie wrote:Have you heard the rumors about Trump's peace plan being a dividing of Jerusalem? This pasture talks about it around 5 minutes in. The entire video is good regarding prophecy.
    Yes I have and did you see in Sweden where people are taking the chip under their skin for ID - willingly? This allows them to access their bank accounts buy stuff at the store. It's happening too fast.
     
     I'll listen to the video after I post this - all you friends of mine and people I don't know, read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. I've read it 3 different study bibles and the message is the same no matter how you slice it.
     
     1. The rapture happens.
     2. Because the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit is now in heaven - see Rev 3 last paragraph 7 spirits of God are with Jesus on earth giving John the letters to write, now in 1st paragraph Chapter 4 John's in the spirit in heaven, watching the 24 elders (the church, no they're not the 12 tribes of Israel or anyone else, along with the 7 spirits of God (Holy Spirit).
     3. So that which restraineth is removed (in heaven), and Satan and the anti-Christ are free to do whatever they want.
     4. God sends a delusion to the unbelievers that because they didn't believe the truth when it was presented to them, they believe the lies of the anit-Christ so that they perish with him
     
     This means all those commercials you've seen about the rapture, and the unbelievers left behind grabbing a Bible and suddenly repent and believe, well, that ain't gonna happen. Sorry. When the rapture happens, the door is shut, the exception being the people that the 144, 000 Hebrew descendants bring to believe in the Messiah. And those people will be killed, but the 144,000 won't, they've been sealed.
     
     Tough but true message. Y'all need to get out their and tell this to your loved ones now. I called my daughter up and read her the riot act. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        15 May 2018, 00:23 #626
     This guy is speaking the truth.  "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        15 May 2018, 19:16 #627
     Ok. But, I had always thought that there would be the Rapture then the Second Coming of Christ and then the Final Judgement where Jesus will judge those who were not raptured both believers and non believers. Is this not right? 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        15 May 2018, 21:37 #628
     correct "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        15 May 2018, 21:43 #629
     
    oldmanmike wrote:correct
    So, someone left behind could still turn their life around
     and be saved in the Last Judgement? 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        16 May 2018, 01:11 #630
     I read that wrong sadie.
     >Jesus will judge those who were not raptured both believers and non believers. Is this not right?
     The last judgment, the "Great White Throne Judgment" is for non-believers. The believers get judged at the "bema judgment" where you get your "rewards" for what you did on earth.
     I'm not sure of the timing of the bema judgment. It's after the rapture that's for sure.
     ======
     That's a tough thing to preach, 2 Thessalonians. In fact, all of Revelations is tough. John was told to eat Jesus' Word, sweet at first, sour to the stomach, meaning, it's easy to preach God is a God of love, it's hard to preach he is the God who judges, also. You make a lot of enemies doing that these days. Somewhere in the old testament are words to the effect that the tribulation is for the Jews who didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah.
     
     This trip through Revelation with David Jeremiah has caused me to internalize it. it's depressing thinking about all the awful things that are going to happen. It started Feb 13th, I'm up to April 20th.
     
     Now I know where the demons that Minister Warren saw in his visions of the Tribulation came from - when Satan unlocks the gates of Hell - the so-called plague of locusts.
     
     Speaking of demons - Drugs were prevalent in Jesus' time as was demon possession. Somewhere in all of this the Greeks had a word for drug-related demon possession. So the meth/coke/heroin/pills use we see today is nothing new. And I think a lot of the horrible things that are in the news about what druggie parents are doing to their kids, I think they're possessed.
     
     My experiences in California before I was saved - I knew this lady who was a shaman-she specialized in "soul retrieval" where a possessed person soul is imprisoned somewhere, the shamans work in pairs, one to distract the demon, the other to get the possessed person's soul back in the body. It's dangerous,, when things go wrong, one of the shamans ends up getting possessed. Scary stuff.
     
     
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"

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 TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread       685 posts
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  •           Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        16 May 2018, 15:50 #631
     
    wrote:Now I know where the demons that Minister Warren saw in his visions of the Tribulation came from - when Satan unlocks the gates of Hell
    Do you think that will be mid or post trib?
     If the rapture is pretrib, then it would have to be after
     the rapture. I pray.
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        16 May 2018, 16:10 #632
     Last 3-1/2 years "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        18 May 2018, 00:02 #633
     On the previous page, I wrote:
    wrote:
     He says the phrase, don't hurt the oil and wine, these is a rich mans food, the famine of the third horse (famine always follows war, always) will be a poor and middle class famine, the rich will escape that and become richer, as they always do like during the Great Depression.
     
    I found this tonight sortof browsing through Amos:
     
     Amos 6:6
     
     (talking about the rich people of Samaria)
     Amos 6:6
     6 that drink wine in bowls, and anoint themselves with the chief oils;
     ASV
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        18 May 2018, 00:05 #634
     I love it when I find self defining verses like that. That's what separates David Jeremiah from the rest - you don't get his opinion, you get God's opinion, he lets the Bible define itself. When he doesn't know, he says so. He's ever so much better than he was years ago. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        19 May 2018, 01:35 #635
     
    Sadie wrote:European Leaders Set to Abolish the European Union, Signed Agreement to Create European Superstate, EU Chief: ‘We have to replace the United States’
     eu
     By Nate Brown — See Comments — Region: Eurasia
     Published: June 27, 2016 Updated: May 10, 2018 at 11:07 am EST
     Subscribe
     
     France and Germany plan to enact a European Superstate abolishing the European Union and formally altering the current world order to establish a European Superstate that can challenge the United States’ dominance. In addition, the EU Chief has stated his desire to replace the United States on the World Stage.
     
     According to signed documents by France and Germany, obtained by TVP; the superpowers of the world better get ready for another contender; the European Superstate. In the West it’s America, in the East, it’s Russia and China, but now there is a plan to create a monstrous superstate and abolish the European Union.
     
     more
     
    https://christianjournal.net/nwo/elite- ... rld-order/That's an interesting article in that they are really proposing a revival of the old Roman Empire, as I read through their proposals. I like the sound of it, actually. They don't propose a NWO, they propose a stronger EU without England. I saw a similar article in a Christian (?) publication where the French president is proposing a separate armed entity of 10 European nations. hmmmmmmmm "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        20 May 2018, 18:39 #636
     
    oldmanmike wrote:
    Sadie wrote:European Leaders Set to Abolish the European Union, Signed Agreement to Create European Superstate, EU Chief: ‘We have to replace the United States’
     eu
     By Nate Brown — See Comments — Region: Eurasia
     Published: June 27, 2016 Updated: May 10, 2018 at 11:07 am EST
     Subscribe
     
     France and Germany plan to enact a European Superstate abolishing the European Union and formally altering the current world order to establish a European Superstate that can challenge the United States’ dominance. In addition, the EU Chief has stated his desire to replace the United States on the World Stage.
     
     According to signed documents by France and Germany, obtained by TVP; the superpowers of the world better get ready for another contender; the European Superstate. In the West it’s America, in the East, it’s Russia and China, but now there is a plan to create a monstrous superstate and abolish the European Union.
     
     more
     
    https://christianjournal.net/nwo/elite- ... rld-order/That's an interesting article in that they are really proposing a revival of the old Roman Empire, as I read through their proposals. I like the sound of it, actually. They don't propose a NWO, they propose a stronger EU without England. I saw a similar article in a Christian (?) publication where the French president is proposing a separate armed entity of 10 European nations. hmmmmmmmmYes, I posted an article about it on the previous page.
     It's the one where I asked if it could be the 10 horns/Kings. 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        21 May 2018, 08:03 #637
     Couple of things. It was a shocker, a mind bender last night I'm listening to David Jeremiah May 6th and May 7th.
     
     7 kings ten horns - Jeremiah counts Roman emperors like John would (I say may, I'd have to ask John or Jesus) have starting with Julius Caesar and ending with Diocletian who was emperor while he was alive (John). Horns in the bible means powerful - 10 horns is much power (that from an earlier edition, it could mean 10 countries. The significant part of the 10 horns is Daniel's beast with 10 toes. He says (like everyone else) these countries represent a remnant of the Roman Empire.
     
     The woman riding the beast represents the world religious apostasy that started in Babylonia in Genesis 10 with Nimrod the rebel, his wife, Semaramis, who had a son, Tammuz...........
     
     (There's a book written in the 1850s Two Babylons - 12 printings - that source the world religion's rituals. Nobody's ever proved it wrong, says Jeremiah, yet as soon as I google Nimrod's wife there's a youtube video debunking Two Babylons. I ordered the book off eBay and when I get it I'll watch the video.)
     
     .....who was called the Queen of Heaven, whom the Hebrew women in Jeremiah 44 were offering sweet cakes to;
     
     ........Isis-Osiris, Venus-Cupid, Aphrodite-Eros, Astarte-Baal - these religious figures he says are rooted in Babel's religion, ( Velikovsky says is rooted in planetary collisions).
     
     The Roman Catholic rituals rosary, "sign of the cross", Lent, Mass, wafer/monstrance he says all started back here.
     
     But anyway, the woman he says represents the world's one-religion which the beast will use as long as it's convenient for the beast to do so, then the beast will turn on her,
     
     and I got to go. more later. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        21 May 2018, 20:06 #638
     Meanwhile, back at the ranch........
     
     The beast that was, is not, but shall be David Jeremiah interprets that as the anti-christ that was, suffered a head wound and died (is not) but shall be is when he is "resurrected". Well that was novel.
     
     The woman that rides the beast is the world's religious system relying on the beast for it's power. That makes sense. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        21 May 2018, 20:53 #639
     Many in the past say that the religion they are talking about is Catholicism.
     I don't know. I always thought it was when all the religions supposedly combine
     but that still seems to be far away from happening. Which is disappointing because
     I want things to be further along so that would mean the Rapture is closer. 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        22 May 2018, 22:50 #640
     There was a lot to absorb in the two programs on Babylon. I want to listen to them again before I make any further comment. Well no. I had a 3 fold thought on Babylon. I though physical Babylon was destroyed a long time ago. I thought spiritual Babylon was the RC church (7 hills of Rome). I thought we (the US) was materialistic (flesh) Babylon.
     
     Jeremiah preaches that physical Babylon will be rebuilt, the ships will be in an out of the Gulf of Araba, he also preaches that the world system of materialism is Babylon, which will be destroyed in an hour. ("Come out of her, my people") meaning, forget chasing the almighty dollar and start following the Lord. We (collectively) spend so much time being wage slaves to our monthly payments for this and that, we have no time for God. This is true, I was guilty of that when I was in the workforce. That his main message on Babylon. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"

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       oldmanmike   
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        23 May 2018, 15:21 #641
 If you're a believer confused about the judgments, take a half hour and listen to this video. Where you won't be is at this one, the Great White Throne judgment.
 
  "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"
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  Creepy as Hell
Creepy as Hell        24 May 2018, 14:07 #642
 
oldmanmike wrote:If you're a believer confused about the judgments, take a half hour and listen to this video. Where you won't be is at this one, the Great White Throne judgment.
 
I will watch that today.
 
 In the mean time, I thought you might find
 this article interesting. It's a little technical for me but
 it discusses cloning and giants etc
 
 https://shepherdsheart.life/blogs/news/bones
 
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        25 May 2018, 00:16 #643
 > this 2400 year old girl was CLONED.
 
 False.
 Her DNA was analyzed.
 
 https://books.google.com/books?id=rBHyB ... D.&f=false
 
 It's a scare article with no basis in fact. They throw a few buzzwords at you, saying they can do this and they can do that when in fact no one has done it.
 
  "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        25 May 2018, 00:35 #644
 I got the book "Two Babylons" today. So far, Alexander Hislop has tracked back all the world's religions to Nimrod and his wife Semaramis. It's an incredibly convoluted scenario, yet he makes sense. I won't ever be able to summarize it. (Wayha if you;'re reading this, take note. You'd really like this book.
 
 He claims, with reason, that the Catholic and Protestant observance of Christmas and Easter were chosen (Christmas in 370-380AD because John Chrysotom bitched in 380 that it hadn't been 10 years since the December 25th date for the Nativity had been chosen.) to coincide with pagan festivals of the same date.
 It was Dionysius Exuugis in 525 who fixed Easter, and it was also he who "invented" the phrase, "In the year of our Lord" (Anno Domino - abbreviated A.D.) because he wanted to get rid of the current method of reckoning - the consular year of Diocletian, a brutal Roman Emperor, so as not to memorialize that man's name.
 
 Hislop says because he fixed Easter when he did, he screwed up Jesus' age, who now 4 years older than he should have been. The real truth is, no one knows. The secularists only speculate, they really don't know. "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        25 May 2018, 00:41 #645
 It was Dionysius Exuugis who fixed the date of March 25 for the feast of the Incarnation, because it was 9 months earlier than December 25th, by now Christmas. The early church fathers knew the truth and complained mightily to no avail. They argued, no way would Augustus call for a census in the middle of winter. No way would shepherds tend their flocks by freezing nights. They knew he was born earlier than the first rains, which came in late October. (Jewish Legend says 1 Tishri which is in the fall.) "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"
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  Creepy as Hell
Creepy as Hell        25 May 2018, 19:57 #646
 I had read years ago that Dec 25th was chosen because it coincided with
 popular pagan holidays. It never bothered me because as you know, and as you
 stated above, there is no way to know the exact date. Mike, do you remember that
 series of stories from a few years ago written by an old nun that described in very intricate detail the nativity and the crucifiction? IIRC, she was given the information
 from angels. But, I'm not sure about it. I remember that you enjoyed reading them.
 Anyway, did you save the links to those stories? 
 
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        25 May 2018, 22:08 #647
 I believe I did. They're on Bible Hub I think, of all places.
 
 http://biblehub.com/authors/emmerich.htm "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"
     Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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  Chat-aholic
Chat-aholic        26 May 2018, 01:04 #648
 
 The Two Babylons
 or The Papal Worship
 Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife
 By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop
 First published as a pamphlet in 1853— expanded in 1858
 
 https://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/
 
 Contents
 
 Introduction
 
 Chapter I
 Distinctive Character of the Two Systems (35k)
 
 Chapter II
 Objects of Worship
 Section I. Trinity in Unity (22k)
 Section II. The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child (14k)
 
 Sub-Section I. The Child in Assyria (57k)
 Sub-Section II. The Child in Egypt (22k)
 Sub-Section III. The Child in Greece (28k)
 Sub-Section IV. The Death of the Child (10k)
 Sub-Section V. The Deification of the Child (61k)
 
 Section III. The Mother of the Child (73k)
 
 Chapter III
 Festivals
 Section I. Christmas and Lady-day (35k)
 Section II. Easter (41k)
 Section III. The Nativity of St. John (42k)
 Section IV. The Feast of the Assumption (11k)
 See Chapter V, Section IV regarding Cupid (St. Valentine's Day)
 
 Chapter IV
 Doctrine and Discipline
 Section I. Baptismal Regeneration (47k)
 Section II. Justification by Works (39k)
 Section III. The Sacrifice of the Mass (25k)
 Section IV. Extreme Unction (6k)
 Section V. Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead (10k)
 
 Chapter V
 Rites and Ceremonies
 Section I. Idol Procession (15k)
 Section II. Relic Worship (16k)
 Section III. The Clothing and Crowning of Images (17k)
 Section IV. The Rosary and the Worship of the Sacred Heart (10k)
 Section V. Lamps and Wax-Candles (18k)
 Section VI. The Sign of the Cross (21k)
 
 Chapter VI
 Religious Orders
 Section I. The Sovereign Pontiff (36k)
 Section II. Priests, Monks, and Nuns (19k)
 
 Chapter VII
 The Two Developments Historically and Prophetically Considered
 Section I. The Great Red Dragon (79k)
 Section II. The Beast from the Sea (44k)
 Section III. The Beast from the Earth (22k)
 Section IV. The Image of the Beast (26k)
 Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name— Invisible Head of the Papacy (47k)
 
 Conclusion (28k)
     Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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  Chat-aholic
Chat-aholic        26 May 2018, 01:15 #649
 
 
 
 
 
 The Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ
 
 Anne Catherine EMMERICH (1774 - 1824)
 
 Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) was a German Augustinian nun who had visions about Christ's life and death. This book relates her visions regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary, from her marriage to St. Joseph to the events surrounding the birth of Christ. (Introduction by Ann Boulais)
 
 
 https://librivox.org/the-nativity-of-ou ... -emmerich/
 
 
 
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  Straight Jacket Time
Straight Jacket Time        26 May 2018, 01:43 #650
 There is no doubt that the RC ornate processions, garb, hierarchy, and icons have some derivation from ancient religions. However, Hislop goes too far when he includes the cross. Of course, ancient religions used a cross of some sort in their symbology. But so what? Jesus was crucified on a cross. I really don't care what they did.
 I don't like the substitutions for Passover and Christmas.
 
 On the other hand, this is a great mythological reference book. Like all of them, it is a very hard read. "History becomes legend,
 Legend fades into myth
 Myth is forgotten and denied
 Until history repeats itself"

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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        26 May 2018, 06:01 #651
     This is a very good condensed version of what Hislop writes about. Two articles, one after another. "Linguistic permutations", a phrase I'll have to remember as names get passed down through history.
     
     http://www.ldolphin.org/semir.html "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                   Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        27 May 2018, 01:05 #652
     
    Seneca wrote:

     
     
     The Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ
     
     Anne Catherine EMMERICH (1774 - 1824)
     
     Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) was a German Augustinian nun who had visions about Christ's life and death. This book relates her visions regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary, from her marriage to St. Joseph to the events surrounding the birth of Christ. (Introduction by Ann Boulais)
     
     
     https://librivox.org/the-nativity-of-ou ... -emmerich/
     
    wrote:I believe I did. They're on Bible Hub I think, of all places.
     
    http://biblehub.com/authors/emmerich.htm
     
     :thumb: :cheers: 
     
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        27 May 2018, 21:22 #653
     I will attempt to put into perspective what I've learned in the past three weeks.
     
     It all started with David Jeremiah's series on Revelation. It starts on youtube Feb 13th, 5 days a week, and ends June 1, I think. (Your youtube search term is David Jeremiah Feb 13 2018, and so on and so forth.) I highly recommend this series, because most church pastors won't preach it like he does.
     
     It was the seven cities being representative of the Christian church through the past 2000 years that got me going, the city of Peregamus being representative of compromise in the Church; Peregamus being called the seat of Satan. Remember that phrase. Well.
     Compromise led to Constantine which led to that article I posted about how the church integrated Pagan festivals into its liturgy. I can imagine how relieved the Church was not to be persecuted, after 10 years of Diocletian.
     
     David Jeremiah's two day sermon on Babylon and his referencing the book Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop prompted me to buy the book. I only recommend it if you need reference on ancient mythology. He tells you in excruciating, unneeded detail these legends.
     
     But I learned enough to realize people far smarter than me have tracked back all the worlds pagan religions, and I stress ALL, to two people, Nimrod and his wife Semaramis, who usurped his throne, who in turn was done in by her son not by Nimrod, Tammuz. Semaramis and Tammuz are the mother and child depicted in all the ancient religions. She reigned by most accounts 42 years, others say 102. Nimrod was the first world ruler, and she was a Jezebel. You can read all about in condensed links I posted.
     
     edit to add, the Caananites and their derivation of Semaramis' religion, when they were driven out of the Holy Land, they founded Carthage and also settled into Peregamus, where a huge temple to (in the Greek Zeus) was built. This was around 323 BC. By the time of John, their worship practices were no different than Jezebel's, which is why the Bible called Peregamus the seat of Satan.
     (I was amazed to learn this.)
     
     So after the persecutions of the Christians stopped, the Popes looked around, were confronted with all these variations of Semaramis' religion and said, "Meet them half-way"; this being the philosophy at the time of Constantine. How better way to increase Church membership.
     
     The point is, once you learn this stuff, where it all comes from, you can't go around spouting off about it because as my wife said, "Look how mad you got when Pastor Dave preached on the Catholics and the Inquisition." (That was 25 years ago, when I was in between Catholic and Protestant, now I'm just a believer.)
     
     The whole point of prophecy in the Bible is to bring the lost to accept Jesus and you're not going to do that by trashing their belief systems. You have to soft pedal it, little bit at a time. I don't know how to soft pedal anything so all I can do is write about it, point y'all in this direction or that, and let the Holy Spirit guide you. Best I can do.
     
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        27 May 2018, 23:09 #654
     Thanks Mike.
     I really appreciate your perspective.
     
     ETA: And, I appreciate the time and thought that
     goes into your posts. They are always fuel for thought.
     
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        31 May 2018, 18:53 #655
     This is a great sermon on the entirety of the Book of Revelation and our takeaway from it. Dr. Jeremiah excoriates people who chop up the book (like I have in the past) and only concentrate on certain parts (like the seals, trumpets and bowls). Well until I listened to his part1 part 2 of Babylon, I never understood the meaning of Babylon. Until you understand or know that Babylon is the source of all that worships other gods, you won't understand why God hates Babylon. I didn't understand the pauses in the book, that give people a chance to repent. I didn't understand exactly who the "multitudes" were in different parts of the book. You learn all this listening to his half hour sermons Feb 13, 2018 to June 1, 2018.
     
     Why is he better than anyone else? He's just like my preacher, he gets out of the way of the Bible and lets it speak for itself. That's all. No fancy stories, no esoteric arguments, no fanciful symbology. This is one of those deals where you know the truth when you hear it.
     
     The 10 minute mark to 14 minute mark is exceptional.
     
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        02 Jun 2018, 22:59 #656
     That guy is great. I will have to catch up.
     
     I watch the Jim Bakker show once in a while depending on who the guest is.
     I had never seen or heard of this preacher before but I really like him.
     His name is Lance Wallnau. Have you ever watched him?
     
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        03 Jun 2018, 03:45 #657
     
    Sadie wrote:That guy is great. I will have to catch up.
     
     I watch the Jim Bakker show once in a while depending on who the guest is.
     I had never seen or heard of this preacher before but I really like him.
     His name is Lance Wallnau. Have you ever watched him?
    I recognize his face from someplace, but not the name. He's a New York Jew that's for sure. He speaks with a Long Island accent. But I didn't hear the name Jesus. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        04 Jun 2018, 00:48 #658
     Well, he does talk about Jesus and quotes scripture.
     I have no idea if his heritage is Jewish or not.
     He talked a lot on the Bakker show about Trump being
     the modern day Cyrus. 
     
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        05 Jun 2018, 05:09 #659
     
     
     NATO Forces Pushing Towards Russia’s Border in a massive drill
     NATO prepares for the largest drills ever on Russia’s door step, this time even Israel is joining in yet claims this is not against Russia, sounds rather hypocritical. President Bashar al-Assad has been invited to meet Kim Jung Un in North Korea.
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        14 Jun 2018, 19:25 #660
     Archaeological Discovery: 2,800-Year-Old Face, Possibly of Biblical King, Found in Israel
     Share On Facebook Share On Twitter
     By Stoyan Zaimov , Christian Post Reporter | Jun 8, 2018 2:08 PM
     
     A small carved sculpture discovered in the ancient city of Abel Beth Maacah in northern Israel, and dating back over 2,800 years, could be a depiction of a biblical king, according to archaeologists.
     
     Robert Mullins, a professor at Azusa Pacific University's Department of Biblical and Religious Studies, who is co-director of excavations in the ancient city, said last week that the sculpture was found last summer in a large building at the highest point of the city.
     
     The figure, only 2 by 2.2 inches in size and carved in a type of glazed ceramic, depicts a man with long black hair and a beard, wearing a yellow and black headband.
     
     The head was originally attached to a figurine that would have stood 8-10 inches in height.
     
     "Despite the head's small and innocuous appearance, it provides us with a unique opportunity to gaze into the eyes of a famous person from the past; a past enshrined in the Book of Ages," said Mullins.
     
     
     
     
     "Given that the head was found in a city that sat on the border of three different ancient kingdoms, we do not know whether it depicts the likes of King Ahab of Israel, King Hazael of Aram-Damascus, or King Ethbaal of Tyre, rulers known from the Bible and other sources. The head represents a royal enigma."
     
     
     
     
     All three of the figures mentioned by Mullins are found in the Bible.
     
     King Ahab is said to have been the husband of the infamous Jezebel, who worshiped the pagan god Baal, with 1 Kings 16:30 explaining that he "did evil in the sight of the Lord, more than all who were before him."
     
     King Hazael is mentioned in 1 Kings 19:15, with God telling the prophet Elijah to anoint Hazael king over Aram Damascus.
     
     King Ethbaal is found in 1 Kings 16:31, where he is referred to as the father of Jezebel.
     
     Azusa Pacific University, which is an evangelical Christian university, pointed out that Abel Beth Maacah is itself mentioned on several occasions in the Hebrew Bible, and has been the site of a number of notable discoveries.
     
     Mullins and his research team have been excavating the remains of what could be an ancient citadel dating back to the time of the Israelite kings, with the rooms containing evidence of metallurgical activity, as well as Phoenician storage vessels.
     
     https://www.christianpost.com/news/arch ... el-224773/

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      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        15 Jun 2018, 22:32 #661
     The story of the Shroud keeps getting even more interesting!
     
     
     
     The Shroud’s Oscillating Man
     By ROD DREHER • June 7, 2018, 1:12 PM
     
     
     screenshot from documentary
     
     Here’s something completely different for the hive mind to consider. It just came to my attention this morning, and I’m trying to get a read on it.
     
     A friend passed on this 50-minute documentary about “new findings” on the Shroud of Turin. The documentary is from 2008, it appears; I haven’t been able to find any follow-up on these supposed new findings, so I don’t know if they’ve been disproved or validated.
     
     In short, the documentary, based on the work of scientists in Sicily, claims to have made new discoveries about the Shroud based on “photogrammetry” — the science of making distance measurements of surfaces depicted on photographs. Using this technique, and high-resolution imagery, the scientists say they’ve found a number of objects on the body of the man in the Shroud — including, remarkably, tefillin, small leather boxes containing Scripture passages that observant Orthodox Jews wear strapped to their left arm and to their heads while praying.
     
     Even more interesting, the scientists claim that their study has shown that the image on the Shroud is not static, but actually depicts a slight oscillation. It is, they say, like stroboscopic photograph, showing slight movement of the figure as intense bursts of energy emanate from his body. Here’s an example of a modern professionally taken stroboscopic photograph:
     
     
     See the article for pic
     
     The movement within the Shroud image, it is claimed, is much more restricted, but still visible. If the image is in fact a glimpse of the moment of Christ’s Resurrection, then it is more like a kind of video of the first seconds of the Resurrection, depicting an oscillating movement of Christ.
     
     See the image at the very top of this post? It depicts the right hand of the Shroud Man. But this imaging technique also shows the same hand in a semi-clenched fist. If the scientists’ theory is correct, and if the image really is Jesus of Nazareth at the moment of Resurrection, then the first thing Jesus did with his hand after returning to life was to make the hand configuration very similar to that Orthodox priests use when they bless — a hand position of great antiquity, derived in part from Greco-Roman hand gestures signifying particular meaning. Here is a detail of the famous 6th century icon of Christ Pantocrator at the Monastery of St. Catherine on Mount Sinai.
     
     more
     
     http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... ating-man/
     
         Quote     Like      Share                   oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        18 Jun 2018, 19:48 #662
     Very interesting. My wife the spiritual one in the family doesn't want to hear it. "It's satanic, demonic, blah blah blah..." oh bs, i say this is the real deal, 3-D imagery shows 370 separate wounds, not counting the sides. Those guys were sadists.
     
     Any way,
     
     I found something old, new. In the Gospel of Hebrews, a 2nd century apocryphal mentions Jesus handing a linen cloth to a priest before appearing to James his bro.
     
     "Most of the ancient Jewish Christian texts, gospels, his
     tories, and communities have disappeared, but there are enough surviving fragments preserved in the writings of the early Church Fathers that enable us to piece together a small part of the larger puzzle.
     
     One of these “lost gospels” is known as the Gospel of the Hebrews. We know it existed because a number of early Church Fathers quoted from it.(22)
     The Gospel of the Hebrewsmentions a “linen cloth” (sindonem) that Jesus
     gives to a “servant of the priest”:
     Dominus autem cum dedisset sindonem servo sacerdotis, ivit ad Iacobum et apparuitei.
     And when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest,
     he went to James and appeared to him.(23)
     The Gospel of the Hebrews also tells us that Jesus’ brother James, the leader of the
     Jerusalem community, was the first to see the risen Jesus. The Gospel of the Hebrewsdoes not prove that Jesus gave the Shroud (of Turin) to Peter, nor does it establish the historicity of any “servant of the priest” receiving it.(24)
     But what the Gospel of the Hebrews
     —
     an early second-century Jewish Christian text—does tell us is that a “linen
     cloth” (sindonem) belonging to Jesus was associated with the Jerusalem community.
     (25)
     Most biblical scholars do not regard the Gospel of the Hebrews or the Shroud of Turin
     to be reliable data for reconstructing the historical Jesus, because the
     Gospel of the Hebrews seems to date from the second century, and the Shroud is commonly regarded a 'a medieval forgery.'
     
     (Left unanswered is, if it isn't paint, what did they forge it with? - omm)
     This is a good read. I'm not a biblical scholar, but I believe it is Jesus' burial cloth.
     
     http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/sjoseph.pdf
     
     There are facts about pre 16th century processions with the Shroud that I didn't know. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        21 Jun 2018, 22:05 #663
     Here is a long synopsis of Two Babylons that I found while checking old AOL bookmarks.
     
     The author tends to think that the original Semiramis, wife of Nimrod, was a work of fiction invented by Diodorus Siculus , a Greek Historian, a contemporary of Julius Caesar. This is an interesting read, showing in short form the many names of Nimrod without wading through Two Babylons. I consider Two Babylons important because it shows how current pageants and traditions of Christmas and Easter were derived from the time of Babylon. However, I also think it's a nineteenth century anti-Catholic diatribe. These things are read with many reservations.
     
     http://www.ldolphin.org/Nimrod.html
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        22 Jun 2018, 06:19 #664
     Berossus (Akkadian Bêl-re'ušunu): Babylonian priest, who wrote a Greek history of Babylonia in the first half of the third century BCE.
     
     http://www.livius.org/articles/person/berossus/
     
     
     The third book of Berossus' Babylonian history we find accounts of the reigns of several kings. One of these is the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II (605-562). Unfortunately, Berossus' own account is lost, but it was summarized by the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in his Against Apion, which was translated by William Whiston.
     
     http://www.livius.org/sources/content/b ... hadnezzar/
     
     This is what Berosus relates concerning the forementioned King: as he relates many other things about him also, in the third book of his Chaldean history. Wherein he complains of the Grecian writers, for supposing, without any foundation, that Babylon was built by Semiramis, Queen of Assyria: and for her false pretence to those wonderful edifices thereto relating, as if they were her own workmanship. As indeed in these affairs the Chaldean history cannot but be the most credible.
     
     ...
     
     The great improvements that Nebuchadnezzar made in the buildings at Babylon, do no way contradict those ancient and authentick testimonies which ascribe its first building to Nimrod; and its first rebuilding to Semiramis: as Berosus seems here to suppose.
     
     http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/apion-1.html    Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        22 Jun 2018, 07:46 #665
     
     
     The Chaldean Account of Genesis
     by George Smith
     [1876]
     
     http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/caog/index.htm
     
     
     CHAPTER XI.
     THE IZDUBAR LEGENDS.
     
     Although the dates transmitted through ancient authors are as a rule vague and doubtful, there are many independent notices which seem to point to somewhere about the twenty-third century before the Christian era for the foundation of the Babylonian and Assyrian power. Several of these dates are connected either directly or by implication with Nimrod, who first formed a united empire over these regions.
     
     The following are some of these notices:—
     
     Simplicius relates that Callisthenis, the friend of Alexander, sent to Aristotle from Babylon a series of stellar observations reaching back 1,903 years before the taking of Babylon by Alexander. This would make 1903 + 331 = B.C. 2234.
     
     Philo-biblius, according to Stephen, made the foundation of Babylon 1,002 years before Semiramis and the Trojan war, as these later were supposed to have been in the thirteenth century B.C. This comes to about the same date.
     
     Berosus and Critodemus are said by Pliny to have made the inscribed stellar observations reach to 480 years before the era of Phoroneus; the latter date was supposed to be about the middle of the eighteenth century B.C., 480 years before it, comes also to about the same date.
     
     These three instances are given in Rawlinson's "Ancient Monarchies," p. 149.
     
     Diodorus makes the Assyrian empire commence a thousand years or more before the Trojan war.
     
     Ctesius and Cephalion make its foundation early in the twenty-second century B.C.
     
     Auctor Barbarus makes it in the twenty-third century B.C.
     
     These and other notices probably point to about the same period, the time when Nimrod united Babylonia into one monarchy, and founded Nineveh in Assyria.    Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        22 Jun 2018, 08:19 #666
     Herodotus and the empires of the East
     
     
     https://archive.org/details/cu31924027764772
     
     
     Herodotus is the first Greek writer to mention Semiramis.
     
     ...
     
     How far can we recognize a historical germ in the legends of Semiramis? We are not quite sure whether Herodotus regarded her as an Assyrian or a Babylonian queen, since, according to I., 184, she might have " ruled over Babylon" from Nineveh. Yet we infer that because Herodotus regarded Nitocris as a Babylonian he would assign the same nationality to Semiramis. The later Greek version, however, regards her as an Assyrian. The statements of Ctesias, that this queen built Babylon, give no evidence as to her date, for the founding of the city dates from the halfhistoric period before Ḫammurabi. Moreover it is impossible that she should have built Babylon and have been, at the same time, the wife of the founder of Nineveh; for the latter was built by Babylonian colonists many centuries after the founding of the former.
     
     ...
     
     The following historical facts are assured: (1) That there was an Assyrian ruler by the name of Semiramis; (2) that she played a conspicuous part in political affairs; (3) that the date given to this queen by Herodotus is confirmed by the cuneiform records. Therefore we can conclude that the foundation for the legends of Semiramis is that historical personage called Sammuramat in the cuneiform inscriptions. The successes which were gained in Media in the time of Ramman-nirari III. easily explain why the later Greeks attributed to Semiramis the great works of the Median monarchs, the building of the citadel in Ecbatana, and even the Behistan Inscription. In this great Assyrian queen the Median poets saw a worthy object of glorification. From the Medes and Persians these descriptions reached the Greeks, and Semiramis then became the half-historical, half-mythical portrait of all the legendary fortunes, habits, and achievements of the Assyro-Babylonian rulers, from Sargon I. and Hammurabi to the fall of Babylon.    Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
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      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        22 Jun 2018, 23:01 #667
     Modern historians do not consider Herodotus and Diodorus as reliable sources. I think they are. The author of the synopsis, in one breath, quotes them both, and in the next breath, trashes them as "unreliable"; this is why he comes up with the conclusion the the first Semiramis was fiction. I don't agree. Where there is legend, there is truth.
     
    wrote: Philo-biblius, according to Stephen, made the foundation of Babylon 1,002 years before Semiramis and the Trojan war, as these later were supposed to have been in the thirteenth century B.C. This comes to about the same date.
    This is the 2nd Semiramis. There were two.
     
     I think Alexander Hislop, using name variations over the years, did an superb job of condensing the legends and using the name variations, arrived at credible account of Nimrod and Semiramis' lives before they deified themselves. Nimrod was the inventor of organized warfare to subdue peoples, in this age. Semiramis took up where he left off. According to Hislop, Nimrod was a black giant who used the Cyclops to accomplish his designs. Nimrod's father Cush supplied the brainpower. Semiramis was an adulteress whose first husband killed himself when he found he couldn't compete with Nimrod (think David, Uriah, and Bathsheba).
     
     BTW, Velikovsky and Two Babylons are now accepted as sources by people doing research in this area. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
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      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        23 Jun 2018, 04:54 #668
     This is the 2nd Semiramis. There were two.
     
     
     Yes. And the reference cited made this Semiramis contemporary with the Trojan war.
     
     But the second historical Semiramis lived in the ninth century BC.
     
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shammuramat
     
     Sammurāmat or Sammuramāt was an empress regent of Assyria between 811 and 808 BCE
     
     
     And the Trojan war circa thirteenth century BC.
     
     http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/ ... age=trojan
     
     Until about a 100 years ago, we were quite sure that the Trojan War was purely legend, and that asking when it happened would be like asking when Atlantis sank. But at the close of the 19th century archaeologists led by Heinrich Schliemann found the remains of a great citadel that existed on the Western shore of Asia Minor, the traditional location of Troy, and which appeared to be overrun in a great war around the year 1250 B.C.E., a time which is compatible with the traditional story of the Trojan War.
     
     
     
     This is more evidence that Velikovsky is correct and standard chronology is incorrect.
     
     
     From the Velikovsky archives:
     
     https://www.varchive.org/dag/aeneas.htm
     
     Aeneas
     
     ...
     
     As to Carthage, the generally accepted view is that it was founded in the second half of the ninth century; Timaios placed its foundation in the year -814. Timaios was the first to fix the chronology of the Olympiads.
     
     Philistos, a Greek author, born in -435, placed Carthage’s foundation “a man’s life length” before the Trojan War; but Philistos’ dating of the Trojan War is unknown. Philistos’ date for the foundation of Carthage, sixty or seventy years before the fall of Troy, is thought to be in conflict with Timaios’ date because the Trojan War would need to be placed in the middle of the eighth century, shortly before the foundation of Rome. But is there a conflict between the founding dates of Carthage in Timaios and in Philistos?
     
     A refugee from Troy in the first half of the twelfth century could not find Carthage, a city built almost three centuries later by colonists from Phoenicia; and he could not be associated with the founding of Rome either directly or by one of his descendants of several generations, the gap between -1183, the conventional year of Troy’s fall, and -753, the traditional date of Rome’s foundation, being more than four centuries wide.
     
     
     
     
     
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      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        23 Jun 2018, 05:06 #669
     
     More from Velikovsky:
     
     https://www.varchive.org/dag/sumup.htm
     
     In Volume I of Ages in Chaos it was shown in great detail why Akhnaton of the Eighteenth Dynasty must be placed in the latter part of the ninth century. If Akhnaton flourished in -840 and not in -1380, the ceramics from Mycenae found in the palace of Akhnaton are younger by five or six hundred years than they are presumed to be, and the Late Mycenaean period would accordingly move forward by about half a thousand years on the scale of time. If the ages of Amenhotep III, of Tiy and of Akhnaton, need to be reduced by about five hundred years, classical studies could take a deep breath.
     
     Actually, when in the eighties of the nineteenth century, the Hellenists were coerced, upon the evidence presented by Egyptologists, to introduce those five dark centuries, they did it only after a period of protest and resistance. But now that three generations of historians have lived with those dark centuries as a historical reality, it is even more difficult to part with them. Nevertheless, sooner or later, they will have to part with the phantom centuries, and have the history of Greece and the development of its writing as a normal process without a four-hundred-year gap.
     
     The conclusion at which we have arrived is this: between the Mycenaean and the Ionian Ages there was no Dark Age, but one followed the other, with only a few decades intervening.    Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
    Posts 964
      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        23 Jun 2018, 05:15 #670
     The Velikovsky timeline would also vindicate Virgil:
     
     
     
     
     The works of Virgil translated into English prose
     Published 1826
     
     
     
     https://books.google.com/books?id=5Bxrk ... 22&f=false
     
     
     
     Before we enter upon the subject of this book, it may be proper to discuss the question concerning the famous anachronism which Virgil is charged with, in making Dido and Aeneas contemporary. Bochart is so positive about it, that he says, if it is not one, nothing is certain in history.
     
     Between Aeneas and Dido, continues he, according to the lowest computation, are at least 260 years; for none of the ancient chronologers of any name, set the destruction of Troy at the distance of less than 60 years from the time of Saul; and from the first year of Saul's reign, to the time of Dido's building Byrsa, the fortress of Carthage, are at least 200 years.
     
     He grounds his assertion on the Chronicles of the Tynans, which have always been reckoned very authentic. Sanconiathon, who comments upon them, lived before the Trojan war, and is preserved in Philo-Biblius's translation.
     
     But what he lays most stress on is a passage in Menander of Ephesus, quoted by Josephus in several places of his history, and by Theophilus of Antioch in his third book to Autolychus. In this passage we have a series of kings who reigned at Tyre, from Abibalus down to Pygmalion, Dido's brother, and of the years that each of them reigned, together with an account of the principal transactions of their .several reigns. There, particular mention is made of Hiram, who succeeded Abibalus, and who is said to have ordered a vast quantity of the cedar of Lebanon to be cut for building temples; which shows that he was the same with the Hiram recorded in the Bible, who lived in the time of Solomon. From Hiram to Ithobalus, priest of Astarte, who put Philes to death, and possessed himself of the throne for thirty years, is a succession of seven kings. This Ithobalus he finds to be the same with Ethbaal mentioned hi Scripture to have lived in the time of Ahab, who married his daughter Jezebel. This fixes the time of Ithobalus, and consequently of Pygmalion and Dido, who were his grandchildren. Pygmalion reigned fifteen years after the death of Ithobalus, and Dido fled into Afric in the seventh year of Pygmalion's reign; that is, according to his computation, when Jehu reigned in Samaria, and the wicked Athalia in Jerusalem. Hence he concludes that Virgil is unquestionably guilty of an anachronism. What he thinks had misled Virgil is, that under the pretext of Dido's having built Byrsa, or rather Bosra, which was the fortress of Carthage, several authors had given out that she was the founder of Carthage itself; and if so, she must have lived in the time of Aeneas, or even before him; for Carthage was built before the destruction of Troy.
     
     Notwithstanding all that this author has to say for himself, the illustrious Sir Isaac Newton, in his chronology, has cleared Virgil from this charge, and finds Aeneas and Dido contemporary.
     
     He brings the era of the destruction of Troy about 300 years lower down than any other chronologist had done before, fixing it to the 78th year after the death of Solomon, the year before our vulgar era 904; and the year of Dido's building Carthage, to the year 883, i. e. 21 years after, when Aeneas might very well be alive. Those who will take the trouble to examine his book, will find it no easy matter to withstand the weighty reasons he offers in support of his singular opinion. To shorten the reader's labour, I shall briefly mention a few of them.
     
     1. He observes that Virgil agrees with the Arundel Marbles. As Virgil relates, probably from the archives of Tyre or Cyprus, that Teucer came from the war of Troy to Cyprus in the days of Queen Dido (see Mn. I. 623.) and with her father seized Cyprus; so the Arundel marbles say that Teucer came to Cyprus seven years after the destruction of Troy, and built Salamis.
     
     2. In the temple built at Cadiz to Hercules, under the name of Melcartus, was Teucer's golden belt, beside Pygmalion's golden bow, by which it appears that the temple was built in their days, and that they were contemporary.
     
     3. Dionysius Halicarnassus reckons sixteen kings from Latinus, who reigned in Italy in the time of the Trojan war, to Romulus; and from him to the consuls were six kings more: which 22 reigns at a medium of 18 years to a reign (taking the lowest reckoning, because many of them died violent deaths), amount to 396 years. These, counting backwards from the consuls Brutus and Publicola, place the Trojan war about 78 years after the death of Solomon, according to Sir Isaac's first computation.
     
     4. Herodotus,who says Homer and Hesiod were but 400 years before him, wrote in the time of Nehemiab, i. e. 444 years before Christ. And Hesiod says he was but an age after the destruction of Troy. Now 400, 444, and 60 years more for the time between Hesiod and the war of Troy, bring it to the year before Christ 904, as Sir Isaac reckons.
     
     5. Lastly, in the year 1689, the cardinal points had gone back one full sign, 6 degrees, and 29 minutes, from the cardinal points of Chiron (in the time of the Argonautic expedition) as nearly, he says, as can be determined by the coarse observations of the ancients. Consequently, at the rate of 72 years to a degree, 2627 years had then passed since Chiron, which brings us back to 43 years after the death of Solomon, for the time of the Argonautic expedition; and the destruction of Troy was about 30 or 35 years later. So tliat all these collateral proofs agree in one point, and fix the era of the ruin of Troy to about one and the same year, viz, 904 years before our vulgar era.
     
     I shall only make one farther remark upon this subject. There is hardly any doubt to be made, that the Romans in Virgil's time were of opinion, that Dido and Aeneas were contemporary; and even granting it to be an error, and that Virgil knew it to be so, yet he acted wisely in (not deviating from common opinion, but) taking advantage of it as a poet, since it conduced so much to the embellishment of his poem.

Offline Archiver

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 TSHTF/WW3/End Times etc discussion thread       685 posts
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  •           oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        28 Jun 2018, 01:42 #671
     I'm still cogitating on all of this Seneca. Against Apion is real good history - I didn't know Pygmalion's sister founded Carthage 140 some-odd years after Solomon's temple was completed. The Romans burned Carthage to the ground when the figured out they were sacrificing kids to Molech like they did in Canaan.
     
     Herodotus was not respected even by his peers. They used him as a back up source. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                   Sadie   
    Posts 62,392
      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        06 Jul 2018, 20:05 #672
     Great info from the both of you.
     So much to dissect and ponder.
     
     
     In the meantime, this video was posted in April, 2018.
     I don't know when it was actually recorded.
     But, it certainly is interesting.
     
     
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  Rogue of the celestial night   
    Posts 9,785
      Night Owl
    Night Owl        11 Jul 2018, 12:44 #673
     What do you think of non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha?  "If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him"--Sun Tzu
     
     A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.    Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
    Posts 62,392
      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        17 Jul 2018, 15:07 #674
     
    Rogue of the celestial night wrote:What do you think of non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha?
    Bumping for Mike.
     
     
     Mike, and everyone, I don't know if this also reflects your thoughts on
     the Tribulation and Rapture but I thought you might
     want to check it out.
     
     http://daretoprepare.com/Trib_Time/Trib_TimeLn.html
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        24 Jul 2018, 23:32 #675
     Before I get into that, I've had a rough couple of weeks, a week in the hospital, then a week catchup on mowing and everything else that broke around the house, then a trip to the ER same problem, back on antibiotics, and another round of mowing coming up - a week of steady rain - it took me a week to get my mower deck straightened out - the mower's too old, I've lost an inch of cutting height, I have to adjust for warpage and tire wear. So.
     
     Anyway, I was reading Matthew 24 last night and I was cogitating on the word "elect" KJV or "chosen" in other translations. Chosen = elect with no loss in translation.
     
     It can mean three different things.
     In Isaiah, it can mean Jesus when the prophet is allowing the Holy Spirit to talk through him when he says, "My Son, My Elect."
     It can mean, again in Isaiah, the Jewish people - depends on the context.
     
     In the New Testament, it means either Jesus - one time, or the Church, the Christians, the believers all other times
     
     There's always this business about people arguiing that the elect in the NT are the Jews because they are God's chosen. Well if you try and subsitiute in "Jewish people who don't believe in the Messiah" wherever the word "elect" or "chosen" is used in the NT, then the scripture loses all meaning, especially in Matthew 24. I had to think about the verse, "those days will be shortened for the sake of the elect" which means, not that there will be anyone believer or unbeliever left on earth, no, shortened so that the elect that are with Jesus in heaven will have someplace to go after the smoke clears, that's why the days will be "shortened." "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        25 Jul 2018, 00:02 #676
     
    Rogue of the celestial night wrote:What do you think of non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha?
    I just lost this long reply I don't know how, hitting escape? the screen blows up and everything's gone.
     
     Anyway.
     
     I think non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha have to be taken on a case by case basis.
     The OT, I think Maccabbees is a must read and should be considered canonical. If I were running things, they'd be in the Bible. How else are you going to fulfill Daniel's King of the North and South for that (160 BC) era? How else are you going to bridge the gap from Malachi to Matthew? Must be read.
     
     The others in the OT are interesting but not essential, Bel and the Dragon etc etc.
     It think The Book of Jasher is an Alexandrian copy of an older document. It should be read.
     I think Jubilees was grinding an axe, and Enoch, read it with a grain of salt.
     
     New Testament - Gospel of Barnabas I think is genuine and a good read. Read it like Clement's letters. Proto evangeleum of James is garbage. Acts of Paul and Thecla is a waste of time. Some of the others are interesting, you get a feel for how people thought, how the phraseology of the times.
     
     I think Josephus Jewish Wars is a must read, if only to see how Jesus prophecy about Jerusalem was fulfilled. I think Eusebius church history is a must read, to see what Christians of the 2nd century had to go through.
     
     They have their place, Rogue. Is there time left to read it all? I doubt it. Finish David Jeremiah's Revelation Feb 13 to June 1 - 30 minute videos first. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        25 Jul 2018, 00:35 #677
     Your link, Sadie. It's OK except for the following statement:
     
    wrote:
     >A NOTE TO UNBELIEVERS: Many folks wonder WHY God would be so mean to punish man with such unimaginable horrors. Tribulation has two purposes. It is
     
     1. To shake the uncommitted and the disbelieving out of their lethargy to sign on with Him,
     2. To punishment those who have deliberately chosen Antichrist as their leader. They won't be hard to miss; they'll be sporting the mark of the beast.

     Somewhere in the OT prophets, and I have to find this, that sole reason for the horrors of the Tribulation is so "They (The Jews) shall know I am the Lord)." That is it and the good rabbi should know this. But no, they're hard heads who have to be taught the hard way.
     
     The second thing about this is, there is no doubt there will be a pre-tribulation rapture. My wife wants more backup than the difference between Revelation 3 and Revelation 4, more backup than 2 Thessalonians 2:5-15(or so). Well I was reading Matthew 24 last night and this part where Jesus is saying
    wrote: Matt 24:37-41
     37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
     
     38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
     
     39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
     
     40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
     
     41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
     KJV
    Once God shut the ramp for Ark, that's it no one else got in. Once the rapture happens, that's it, nobody left behind will be saved. If you don't believe that, then Jesus follows up as in the days of Noe with, "one will be taken, one will be left". Twice for emphasis. Then follows the destruction of Jerusalem which kind of presages the destruction of the tribulation.
     
     To shake the uncommitted - baloney - the uncommitted God will give them a lie to believe so that - here let Paul tell you
     2 Thess 2:9-12
     9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
     NIV
     
     The rapture's already happened - so those that are left are those that heard the message but never bothered to check it out and get saved.
     
     
     This is a very tough message to preach - 1 you have to believe in a pre-trib rapture that is plain for the eye to see and 2 if you were to into 90% of the churches in America and preach this message, you'd get thrown out on your ear. People don't want to hear it. But it's the truth.
      "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                  Rogue of the celestial night   
    Posts 9,785
      Night Owl
    Night Owl        25 Jul 2018, 02:35 #678
     
    oldmanmike wrote:
    Rogue of the celestial night wrote:What do you think of non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha?
    I just lost this long reply I don't know how, hitting escape? the screen blows up and everything's gone.
     
     Anyway.
     
     I think non- canonical books and the Pseudepigrapha have to be taken on a case by case basis.
     The OT, I think Maccabbees is a must read and should be considered canonical. If I were running things, they'd be in the Bible. How else are you going to fulfill Daniel's King of the North and South for that (160 BC) era? How else are you going to bridge the gap from Malachi to Matthew? Must be read.
     
     The others in the OT are interesting but not essential, Bel and the Dragon etc etc.
     It think The Book of Jasher is an Alexandrian copy of an older document. It should be read.
     I think Jubilees was grinding an axe, and Enoch, read it with a grain of salt.
     
     New Testament - Gospel of Barnabas I think is genuine and a good read. Read it like Clement's letters. Proto evangeleum of James is garbage. Acts of Paul and Thecla is a waste of time. Some of the others are interesting, you get a feel for how people thought, how the phraseology of the times.
     
     I think Josephus Jewish Wars is a must read, if only to see how Jesus prophecy about Jerusalem was fulfilled. I think Eusebius church history is a must read, to see what Christians of the 2nd century had to go through.
     
     They have their place, Rogue. Is there time left to read it all? I doubt it. Finish David Jeremiah's Revelation Feb 13 to June 1 - 30 minute videos first.
    Thanks Mike.
     
     I have Eusebius, the book of Jubilees, Enoch and my dad's old bible with the Apocrypha in it...
     
     I am reading Michael Heiser's book, Return to Hermon, and there is another book I have thumbed through, but will read soon called, the Omega Conspiracy. They mention some of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha books.
     
     I find Enoch difficult to swallow in parts, but it did explain to me fallen Angels and the Giants.
     
     A pastor was getting rid of books, and I picked up Eusebius, so in my readings, if something is mentioned in that book, I will go through it to see what is said in context.
     
     Too much to read...but fun and interesting also.
     
      "If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him"--Sun Tzu
     
     A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.    Quote     Like      Share                  Seneca   
    Posts 964
      Chat-aholic
    Chat-aholic        25 Jul 2018, 03:10 #679
     
     
     Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha
     
     http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm
     
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
    Posts 62,392
      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        27 Jul 2018, 22:10 #680
     Another example of the end times.
     
     
     Christian Pastor: Facebook Censors Bible Verse “John 3:16” and “The Resurrection of Jesus Christ”
     Jim Hoft by Jim Hoft July 26, 2018 133 Comments
     
     Popular Christian Pastor Steven Andrew says Facebook has shadow-banned and censored his Bible verse posts.
     
     Pastor Andrew says his posts with “John 3:16” and “The Resurrection of Jesus Christ” were banned by Facebook.
     
     
     
     He has lost close to 5 million readers a month since Facebook changed their algorithm.
     
     Pastor Andrew says, “Christianity is not fake news.”
     
     Standard Newswire reported:
     
     
     A popular pastor said, “Facebook is blocking almost everyone from seeing John 3:16, ‘The Old Rugged Cross,’ the resurrection of Jesus Christ and my other posts.” Pastor Steven Andrew has a sizeable audience, with 467,000 people liking his page. Yet, Facebook showed these posts to only hundreds of people each. (The number will be higher with media coverage.)
     
     Andrew said, ‘I am being silenced by Facebook. Christianity is being silenced!”
     
     “These posts are filled with God’s forgiveness and truth, which are the greatest message of love,” he said.
     
     Andrew is called the “Facebook pastor” and spent thousands of dollars with Facebook advertising to build up the followers. Before the censoring, he reached 5 to 8 million people per month, with an average post going to 30,000 to 60,000 people. Some posts reached a million people. However, after Facebook said they were cracking down on fake news in 2016, they shadowbanned Andrew, blocking about 5 million people per month.
     
     “Christianity is not fake news,” he said.
     
     Andrew contacted Facebook about the censoring earlier, but they did nothing. He also requested Facebook remove the fake accounts impersonating him that scam followers for money, but Facebook refused. There are over 70 impersonating accounts.
     
     more
     https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/0 ... us-christ/

Offline Archiver

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               oldmanmike   
    Posts 11,480
      Straight Jacket Time
    Straight Jacket Time        27 Jul 2018, 22:32 #681
     I just posted John 3:16 as a test on Facebook. 2 likes and a share. It might be a people oriented shadow ban rather than what is posted shadow ban. "History becomes legend,
     Legend fades into myth
     Myth is forgotten and denied
     Until history repeats itself"
         Quote     Like      Share                   Rogue of the celestial night   
    Posts 9,785
      Night Owl
    Night Owl        27 Jul 2018, 23:46 #682
     At about 7:30 mark is where it kind of get's interesting...food for thought.
     
      "If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him"--Sun Tzu
     
     A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.    Quote     Like      Share                  Rogue of the celestial night   
    Posts 9,785
      Night Owl
    Night Owl        27 Jul 2018, 23:51 #683
     I can say on good authority, they can track you by satellite, and they don't need for you to have any mobile device or location activated to find you.  "If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him"--Sun Tzu
     
     A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.    Quote     Like      Share                  Sadie   
    Posts 62,392
      Creepy as Hell
    Creepy as Hell        13 Aug 2018, 16:50 #684
     
    Rogue of the celestial night wrote:I can say on good authority, they can track you by satellite, and they don't need for you to have any mobile device or location activated to find you.
    :twitchy:
     
     So, if I leave my house and they wanted to track me
     they could do it by satellite even if I did not have my phone?
     
     Greeaaat.
     
     
     
     United Methodist Church of Minnesota Removes ‘Father’ From Apostles’ Creed
     The UMC of Minnesota has removed the word 'Father' from the historic Apostle's Creed for worship services, sparking outrage from the broader Christian community. The removal is because UMC Minnesota wants to be more tolerant towards transgenderism.
     
     umc
     By Nate Brown — @natebro21 — See Comments
     Region: Minnesota Published: August 13, 2018 Updated: August 13, 2018 at 7:55 am EST
     
     At the annual Minnesota Conference of the United Methodist Church, the historic Apostles’ Creed was edited to remove the word ‘Father,’ to make it more compliant with culture.
     
     The creed goes back to the days of the Early Church and is an affirmation of the Christian Faith. The reading is still widely used in today’s churches and sometimes is used during parts of worship.
     
     
     At the Minnesota Conference, which was held from May 30–June 1, liturgical folders reportedly included a copy of the creed that removed gender-specific language for God, changing “God the Father Almighty” to “God the Creator Almighty” and “Jesus Christ His Only Son” to “Jesus Christ God’s Only Son.”
     
     Rev. Keith Mcilwain, the pastor at Slippery Rock United Methodist Church in the Western Pennsylvania Conference, obtained a copy of the edited creed from a friend who attended the Annual Conference. Mcilwain posted an image of the edit to social media.
     
     more
     
     https://christianjournal.net/church/uni ... ce=Message
     
         Quote     Like      Share                  Rogue of the celestial night   
    Posts 9,785
      Night Owl
    Night Owl        15 Aug 2018, 01:28 #685
     Yep. If they have your dna, they can track you, anywhere.
     
     So, "I believe in God the Father, Almighty," Father was taken out? Dumb!  "If your opponent is quick to anger, seek to irritate him"--Sun Tzu
     
     A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.    Quote     Like      Share   

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